2024 TGE, replace oem split charge with b2b

[californiatime]

Hi Everyone. I have a 2024 TGE with OEM 2nd battery under the bonnet.

I want to replace the split charge relay (OEM) with a victron Orion XS 50 b2b charger.

Seems simple in my head, can I just check my workings:

1) remove existing split charge relay under the bonnet, put Orion XS in it's place (so feed into it, then output to battery). Connect earth on Orion to chassis or battery negative.

2) What do I do to get the Orion to switch on/off? Do I use the cable that BCM cable that connects to the split charge or do I use smart settings in the Orion? And if so, is it configured right from the factory or do I need to adjust something in the BCM (I have VCDS). Clearly don't want any smart alternator / euro6 nonsense playing into it working properly! Just want it to charge when engine running, and not when it's not !

Thanks

 

[rod_vw]

I would use the wire from the BCM which according to my wiring diagram should be a 1sqmm Red/White. That way is more correct than connecting the XS to an ignition switched signal that most of us have to do with as accessing the BCM to add the OEM signal wire.

 

[californiatime]

Brilliant, that sounds straightforward. On my aux battery there is a BCM/sensor of some description on the negative pole. Do I leave this connected as-is? I presume so as does it just tell the BCM to turn the relay on/off (the 1mm red/white wire) based on the state of charge of the aux battery? Or do I unplug it? I seem to remember somewhere that if you unplug it the van defaults to thinking it's at 50% constantly, thus switching on/triggering the relay.

Finally, I assume the alternator will just do whatever it needs to do to cope with all this going on, and it won't lead to me having a flat starter battery?!

 

[rod_vw]

Hi @californiatime if you are fitting a Orion XS to manage the charging of your leisure battery I think it should not have the old leisure battery monitor included. However I don't know how you should remove it from the vehicle coding. It's my understanding that the battery monitor that is fitted to the OEM second battery -ve terminal manages the alternator output to ensure the correct charge of that battery but in your case you have fitted the XS to do that. Maybe @mmi will come onboard with this discussion and can help you.
Sorry @mmi to bring you into this but it's beyond my knowledge.

 

[Scottish Scrutineer]

I’d contact Roger Ivy at Off Grid Solutions for advice.

 

[mmi]

Please post
(1) full VCDS Auto-Scan
(2) Adaptation map of BCM (09)
(3) Adaptation map of Special Function control unit (3D)

 

[californiatime]

Please post
(1) full VCDS Auto-Scan
(2) Adaptation map of BCM (09)
(3) Adaptation map of Special Function control unit (3D)

Will do - just need 10 mins to myself to get out to the van!

 

[californiatime]

Hi @mmi

Here you go - as requested. Thanks in advance for your help.

 

[mmi]

In the BCM (09) adaptation map there is a mention about second battery charging - but marked as not installed.


Obviously because the aux battery charging is controlled by unit 3D-Special vehicle control unit. Below a snippet from Crafter workshop manual - "Factory installed accessories and conversions"

Couldn't find anything obvious in adaptation map of 3D-Special vehicle control unit. Possibly something useful in coding?


1 - Dash panel insert -KX2-
2 - CAN bus wire
3 - Special vehicle control unit -J608-
4 - E-LIN bus wire 2
5 - Battery monitor control unit 2 -J934-
6 - Second battery
7 - Electrical system connection for body builder
8 - Second battery charging circuit relay -J713-
9 - Alternator
10 - Battery
11 - Battery monitor control unit -J367-
12 - E-LIN bus wire 1
13 - Data bus diagnostic interface -J533- (19-CAN Gateway)

---

Below a function description found in the workshop manual:

1.4 Notes on function of second battery charging circuit relay -J713-

Switching states of second battery charging circuit relay -J713-
♦ Closed when engine is running safely and there is no energy-critical condition.
♦ Closed when external charging is detected with engine not running.
♦ Open with engine running and energy recovery active, when charge level of second battery is more than 90 % and only low current flows.
♦ Open when engine is not running or when engine start-stop system is in stop mode.
♦ Open for a period of one minute when external charging is detected with engine not running and ignition switched on.
♦ Open at engine start

 

[californiatime]

Thanks, v helpful. Will take a look at coding options for the special vehicle control unit and see what’s there.

The third bullet point on the operating functions could mean that the b2b I’d replace the split charge with would switch off without the batteries being at 100% and going into float. I wonder what state the svcm puts the charger output into if I disconnected the 2nd battery monitor control unit?

 

[rod_vw]

@mmi rarely fails to come up with the goods, thank you.

 

[guzi007]

I have a 2020 Crafter, left-hand drive, without a second battery and without a special module.
I coded in VCDS MAS01490-ENG142037 – Energy management – Second battery (Zweitbatterie).

On connector 73C of the BCM (the lower one), at PIN 72 (which physically exists), there is a constant voltage of 0.6V. I loaded this pin with a 10W bulb, and regardless of whether the engine is running or not, the voltage drops to 0V.

In VCDS, I checked the values and MAS01490-MAS058887 – Energy management – Battery cut-out relay 2 changes its state when the engine is running.

I checked the fuses — all fuses going to the BCM are present in their slots.

Is there anything else I should modify? Has anyone actually managed to get the D+ output working physically? Is it possible that my BCM internally does not have the output driver circuit or the appropriate software?

Should voltage appear on this output without load, or does it require a load to work?
I want to use the D+ output for an Orion XS.
Below are the adaptations from the BCM, Gateway, and scan. I would be very grateful for any help and guidance!

 

[rod_vw]

On a T5 the signal from the BCM was activated with 'Battery Isolation' active.
I've not looked at the TGE to see if there is a similar item on that BCM. I have activated that signal successfully and used it to switch a relay on a T5.

 

[G-A-R-Y]

Hi Everyone. I have a 2024 TGE with OEM 2nd battery under the bonnet.

I want to replace the split charge relay (OEM) with a victron Orion XS 50 b2b charger.

Seems simple in my head, can I just check my workings:

1) remove existing split charge relay under the bonnet, put Orion XS in it's place (so feed into it, then output to battery). Connect earth on Orion to chassis or battery negative.

2) What do I do to get the Orion to switch on/off? Do I use the cable that BCM cable that connects to the split charge or do I use smart settings in the Orion? And if so, is it configured right from the factory or do I need to adjust something in the BCM (I have VCDS). Clearly don't want any smart alternator / euro6 nonsense playing into it working properly! Just want it to charge when engine running, and not when it's not !

Thanks

I've done this on my 23 plate California Crafter. Switch out the old dumb relay that only charges aux battery to 80%. You need to remove relay and battery cables because they are too big for Orion which only accepts 16mm. Take live from bus bar behind under bonnet battery. Earth to inner wing connection is great.

I left the shunts on the battery, set the Orion to ignition live switch on from under passenger seat fuse live. Set lockouts low, battery voltage is always low to allow for regenerative braking.

Turn off engine shut down detection. Here is a screenshot of my settings which I've used for nearly two years. Don't put Lithium under the bonnet it gets to hot, I managed 42c in France. Now mines in the rear. I've have no dash lights or warning and run it at 50 amps.

These are my findings that work well for me, I hope it helps.

 

[rod_vw]

I've done this on my 23 plate California Crafter. Switch out the old dumb relay that only charges aux battery to 80%. You need to remove relay and battery cables because they are too big for Orion which only accepts 16mm. Take live from bus bar behind under bonnet battery. Earth to inner wing connection is great.

I left the shunts on the battery, set the Orion to ignition live switch on from under passenger seat fuse live. Set lockouts low, battery voltage is always low to allow for regenerative braking.
View attachment 1535
Turn off engine shut down detection. Here is a screenshot of my settings which I've used for nearly two years. Don't put Lithium under the bonnet it gets to hot, I managed 42c in France. Now mines in the rear. I've have no dash lights or warning and run it at 50 amps.

These are my findings that work well for me, I hope it helps.

I'm intrigued as to why you didn't use the wire that operated the original relay as the signal to the Orion. The original signal from the BCM should be active whenever the alternator is charging but I believe is capable of becoming inactive when load shedding is necessary due to excessive demand on the alternator from other vehicle equipment. Not a I have ever had occasion to see the latter actually happen when I have used that signal on a T5.

 

[G-A-R-Y]

I'm intrigued as to why you didn't use the wire that operated the original relay as the signal to the Orion. The original signal from the BCM should be active whenever the alternator is charging but I believe is capable of becoming inactive when load shedding is necessary due to excessive demand on the alternator from other vehicle equipment. Not a I have ever had occasion to see the latter actually happen when I have used that signal on a T5.

From my own finding and monitoring of the "dumb" relay I noticed it does NOT always trigger. Even when the battery boost button is pressed charging does not take place. Most Grand California owners notice this shortcoming. There are lots of reason why I think it won't charge, perhaps, engine temp, regen status, condition of main battery, I don't really know but it's dam annoying.

For us the biggest problem was after being off grid and achieving full 100% aux battery with solar charging we noticed that when the engine was started (and relay did trigger) you can see a negative amp displayed on the camper control panel ranging from 40 -90 amp discharge of your fully charged leisure battery.

I fitted a 300ah lithium along with Multiplus compact and Orion 50 amp in the front. I also fitted a dummy battery in the front which acts as a bus bar and left the shunts in place. It looks original for my warranty and servicing.